‘Saved’ Sect? I don’t need saving.
October 14, 2008
“If we are surprised by anything, that this criminal molested you at the age of 16, because this is an age at which one is big and able to shout and defend oneself, especially as that happened a number of times. You could also have stopped him by telling your family. No matter how cut off the family members may be from one another, they would not take such incidents lightly.”
- F
F
Sahar
Farah
October 14, 2008 at 9:00 am
The psyche of a 16 year old girl may restrict her to bring such a incident tot he open when it concerns family member she she was led to trust throughout her life.
October 14, 2008 at 9:01 am
I don’t quite understand this…
October 14, 2008 at 10:07 am
I think your over reacting, its a statement of fact, whilst some families may ‘cover up’ such incidents most would not take it lightly t, 16 is old enought to take postive action – like taking a knife to sumone.
The fatwa in its entirety makes sense, no need for sectarian bashing here
October 14, 2008 at 10:29 am
Penny: Read the link.
Jarrar, are you serious? Within the context of the entire fatwa the bit highlighted by F is still outrageous. To say she was ‘old’ enough to respond back exposes your ignorance of what this type of incident does to the victim. You have no right or place to say that she should have behaved in a way that you deem would have been more appropriate. The harrowing experience can have varying effects on the victim in which we can’t assume a normative reaction. So Faranji, I agree with you that she was only 16 years old, and her young age would have contributed to her inability to talk to someone—especially family, but also, the experience itself can be damaging to ANYONE, regardless of age. So the simple act of telling someone about it is a huge hurdle for many victims in these situations. For many feel shame, blame themselves and are crippled by fear.
October 14, 2008 at 11:00 am
The author of the fatwa does touch upon the psycological aspects abuse, and he is not blaming the victim as he repeatedly states, however he is merely stating that she could have spoken out, especially as it was repeated abuse. In fact he is saying she should have confided in her family, as they most likely could have put and end to it.
How that is twisted into a whabbi bashing post is beyond me.
In the context of the ENTIRE fatwa I dont see whats wrong with the statement.
As for normative responses, of course we do not expect them in abnormal situations but that does not prohibit me or anybody else of suggesting an appropiate way for the victim of any serious form or abuse to respond. Even if we havent gone through such abuse ourselves. of course the road to recovery will be different for each victim but to suggest that one cannot even suggest an alternative course of action to have STOPPED the abuse is quite something.
Note, I am not ,nor do I belive the author, is blaming the victim.
October 14, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Insensitive. I don’t really think they’re directly blaming her, but they’re suggesting it and even if it’s true it’s so insensitive and not something you should ever say to someone.
The guy is obviously out of touch with reality if he thinks a woman can speak out about her molestation and/or rape without persecution in some situations. He also fails to understand the psychology of why a victim might not speak out even if she’s stronger or older and able to stop it.
Whatever, I’ve always hated that site and now I hate it even more.
October 14, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I am sickened by what the scholar said. How dare he tell the girl that she could of spoken out because she was 16. I have worked with woman who were sexually abused and I can tell you it is the hardest thing for a person to speak out against the abuse it doesn’t matter if your 6 or 16!
The perpretrators are very skilled at making sure the victim keeps quiet by brainwashing, blackmailing and threatening.
The victim is often ashamed, scared and feels guilty because the perpretator has made them believe it is their fault and nobody will believe them. Imagine its a family member or relative. How can they tell? Imagine the fear of getting a relative in trouble do you know what a heavy burden that is on a child or teenager or even an adult! Society doesn’t want to know because they can’t deal with it. It’s such a taboo subject and stirs up alot of uncomfortable feelings in people. There are many people who have told and been shunned by society.
It’s never ever easy. My heart goes out to the girl. May Allah expose,destroy all sexual abuser and their supporters. It’s time for us to stand up and support the victims instead of blaming them in any way.
October 14, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Mish Says:
October 14, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Insensitive. I don’t really think they’re directly blaming her, but they’re suggesting it and even if it’s true it’s so insensitive and not something you should ever say to someone.
The guy is obviously out of touch with reality if he thinks a woman can speak out about her molestation and/or rape without persecution in some situations. He also fails to understand the psychology of why a victim might not speak out even if she’s stronger or older and able to stop it.
Whatever, I’ve always hated that site and now I hate it even more.
Mish thats exactly right. Thank you!
October 14, 2008 at 6:36 pm
VICTIM-BLAMING! This is *basically* saying that if you don’t stop it, it’s all your fault. I agree with Mish: this is exactly why I don’t read sites like this.
Here’s another reason:
http://peacefulmuslimah.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/somebody-needs-a-smackdown/
October 15, 2008 at 3:03 am
“Whatever, I’ve always hated that site and now I hate it even more.”
word.
October 15, 2008 at 6:42 am
Jarrar:
“How that is twisted into a whabbi bashing post is beyond me.”
Bashing? Naw. I’ll leave that for another day
.
I’m merely pointing out the irony- they claim to be the ‘Saved’ and yet their type of ’saving’ is found upon the degradation of women. The language of Wahhabi ideology is unsurprisingly predictable. Even with a rape victim, it must somehow be her fault. Now compare their souless fatwas with those of Sunnipath (fatwa 1, fatwa 2). I assure you the language is entirely different. Now that’s the kind of Islam I want to be a part of. That’s the kind of saving I want.
October 19, 2008 at 8:23 am
Although those two fatwa are much more humane, neither mentions bringing criminal charges. I think its important to bring up to victims, although many decide against it, at least it serves to highlight their lack of culpability
November 13, 2008 at 2:12 am
When I wanted to learn more about my religion, I went to various websites, checking and rechecking to make sure each one validated the other, and I came across this particular website (islam-qa.com). When I had a question and I wanted to make sure the answer was correct, I had my mom ask a imam who worked at one of the stores we got our food from. He redirected her to this site.
Now, I didn’t really like this particular imam my mom had spoken to, and my mom is better at looking at the good qualities in people than I am; I felt that this particular imam (and like so many others in today’s world) was a bit biased. He gave off this chauvinistic vibe I didn’t like. So when he redirected my mom to this site, I was crushed. I didn’t like this site; I felt this site was biased, that it was chauvinistic, that it was mixed in with opinions more than just leaving the facts out there to be dissected by people, but I also bit my tongue because you’re not always going to like everything you see or come across.
However, today, having come across this blog, I’m happy to find others who don’t like this site, who hate it as much as I do. So, I’ve finally stopped feeling crushed.
Onto the article. I’ve seen similar “advice” given to women who were victims of abuse. I grew up in an abusive home; I’ve seen (not necessarily experienced) all forms of abuse, so I understand how someone feels when they’ve been mistreated, violated in this way. They’re utterly helpless; they don’t have a voice, because to speak is to blame themselves. I also felt that the imam was a bit detached from her situation. One of the other sites I came across had this one woman talking about how her father-in-law had sexually harrassed her. His horrifying advice to her was to not tell her husband lest it ruins his relationship and his family. I was absolutely disgusted. My advice to the woman would have been to get out of that house as fast as possible, speak to her husband and seek charges to press! It does not matter to me whether the person is your husband, a family member, a friend, an enemy, IT’S WRONG NO MATTER WHAT!!
But I guess my advice would’ve been too “American”. Honestly. I think in these instances, labels should be dropped and we should just look at it as humans. No human I know wants to be violated, then indirectly blamed, which I have found happens a lot with these sheikhs and imams.
Another horrifying thing I’ve had the misfortune of hearing came from this well-respected sheikh/imam (whatever you want to call him) on this particular lecture I was watching. He was talking about rape and with the way he spoke of the victims (the women) in this situation, it sounded a lot like he was blaming women in these situations more so than blaming the men. He kept bringing up (after the interviewer kept dissenting or offering up other views) that a woman should cover herself and she wouldn’t be raped. That if a woman covers herself, the man won’t feel this evil desire to defile her body.
All I kept thinking was “I don’t care if I walk outside wearing only undergarments, a man has NO right to touch me, and if a man should rape a woman, it is in NO WAY her fault, REGARDLESS of what she was wearing.” It is the man’s responsibility to keep his hands to himself. We are not the only ones in the Quran required to lower our gaze and wear modest clothing. I think some have forgotten that!
I’ve noticed I’ve deviated from the article. I apologize for that, but this is something I’ve seen happening so many times. I can’t help but feel like crying every single time I hear about something like this. It’s either: be silent and marinate in the pain, or speak up and be blamed for it.
November 13, 2008 at 9:57 am
Truthfully, well said. I agree with you completely. You’re right, there are no excuses and our religious leadership seem to be ridiculously detached from the experiences women in particular go through in our community. It’s their attitude towards abuse– whether sexual or not– is actually encouraging such behaviour to continue. Makes me angry and just as horrified as you are.